Fitting M15A VVT engine into non VVT M13A Jimny

On the invoice have you been charged for the engine

Also it was said by lil-me as i read it the engine was there you payed them so thay then gave the owner money for it so in other words that sold it to you then the owner of the engine delivered it to them im lost on this one

If it was a recon engine id say low revs for x miles then oil change etc but seeing as it was an engine that was ok when removed then if it was in the other car reving then it should be ok in a jimny reving

lil_me wrote:

redbrian wrote: Sorry I just read over again I see they recommended supplied and fitted. how long ago was the job done?

He asked us to fit it into his car, no advice given

You told me it would fit (a VVT engine in a non VVT car! and you are supposed to be the experts) You told me the engine had only done about 50,000 miles - no advice given heh.

He gave money to us to hand over for the engine and exhaust, he was buying direct but they weren't available at the same time, not even leaving sufficient funds before leaving but seller was ok to wait. I gave you £280 up front and asked if you wanted the balance before proceeding and you said no it was okay. I have spent many thousands of pounds with major suppliers on my Jimny and am not and never have been the type of person not to pay my bills.

All quotes and receipt stated engine supplied by seller.

Receipt actually said engine supplied by client yet I didn't even know about the engine until you showed it to me whilst it was lying there in your unit.
Quotation email also stated We'll then forward the payment for the engine and exhaust to the person selling them for you as agreed, Mike wanted to also pay via PayPal which the client could not accept as he doesn't use it.

Payment was finalised the night collected when Mike mett the seller.

Yes and I only met the seller after the engine had already gone wrong (after I had driven it only 2000 metres down the road and the ignition fuse blew) You gave me a handful of replacement fuses and sent me on my way. The fuse blew 4 more times on the way home. The fuse has never gone before this in the 2 years I have owned the car!

The engine fitting cost paid to us was £50

Regardless of the price you were paid to do a professional job. I could have done a botch job myself.

Yes the person who owned the vehicle the engine came from is a client, a friend as many have become, he is also knowledgable about Jimnys and Suzukis and who many on here go to for advice.

Yet despite all this expertise you failed to recognise that my Jimny was NOT VVT and proceeded to fit a VVT engine which was not suitable for my ECU and wiring ( as confirmed by the head mechanic of my local Suzuki dealers ). He actually said and I quote '' The ECU in your Jimny speaks a completely different language to the 1.5 VVT engine fitted. Your ECU will never know if it is over fuelling the engine, under fuelling, over advancing the timing etc etc''

Knowing it would need running in

The Suzuki mechanic and others have also told me that a used engine does not need 'running in' unless bearings, piston rings etc. have been changed. He said even new engines don't need running in. I was told that engine had already done 50,000 miles.

Wiring on the existing engine was an accident waiting to happen, unsafe and definitely not up to any decent standard.

Yet you failed to mention this to me until I complained and anyway I will confirm the state of the wiring when I have it properly assessed. It was so bad then that I have never had a problem with it in 2 years.

Even the battery connection was poor.

Yet you failed to mention this to me either or recommend I had anything done to rectify it. THE BATTERY LEADS WERE LOOSE WHEN IT FIRST BROKE DOWN LANING one of the guys laning with us tightened them up. This was 3 days after I got the car back from you.

Wires hanging around inside also.

'The wires hanging around inside also' were the wires that originally went to my split charge unit and winch battery which I had to remove from the rear of the car as you also promised to fit me an internal roll cage (which never happened despite me leaving the car with you for 2 whole weeks). I was then hoping to refit them after my roll cage was in.

We have since been sent 7 videos by Big Jimny members which included the engine running fine all be it ragged within an inch of it's life. The engine was being pushed very hard in a particular video but can be heard running.

Every video you may have seen had had numerous Jimny's doing the exact same lane in the exact same mud yet nothing happened to their engine. I am intrigued at the melodramatic phrase 'ragged within an inch of it's life' as I dispute 'ragging' my car and have spent lots of effort to ensure it's longevity. All this within 200 miles of replacement while the engine should have been still run in gently,

not bouncing off the limiter

Oh yes and thankyou for recognising it has a REV LIMITER.

dragging round a diff that was in a similar condition to the wiring

Oh and you were mistaken about the diff too. If you had taken the time to notice that the clunking diff you referred to when I picked up the car was upon further investigation actually just the pads on the Xbrake not backing off properly on the rear prop (fine set of mechanics that you are) and for further peace of mind I removed the diff and took it to a local gear shop who confirmed there were no issues with it.

The advice was given that this wasn't the engine expected or we were informed initially. We were not aware what engine it had in until the day after it arrived, before that he told us it had VVT. We did say its not a straight forward swap after finding that out, it took much longer and at no point did Mike Lloyd say do not fit the engine I requested or change it back

I told you that it was an M13A engine NOT a VVT. You clearly didn't know what you were talking about when you sent me a text dated 22 June when you said and I quote ''Engines in, had to rewire loom on it as your engines m13 not m13a only difference is whether it has vvt or not so not too bad. Started on the cage yesterday hopefully get it finished tues/wed''. Any garage worth his salt should have known a non VVT engine before removing it. You even showed me the connection port for the VVT on the new engine when you had finished and said to me ''your vvt wont work because your system was not vvt but we can wire a switch on your dashboard that you can flick on at 3500 rpm. Then you will have the extra power of the VVT.

he was taking the issue up with trading standards.

After all of this do you actually blame me for not going to the trading standards. Unbelievable!


We will request this thread is removed as it gives half a story and even less of the facts

Well here's the full story with ALL the facts. No wonder you wanted the thread removed.

Thanks to those who emailed photos and videos to show exactly what extremes the new engine was put under against advice in the day after fitting and not long after.

Anyone wants to ask us anything direct, please feel free

Feel free to pm me too.

At the end of the day you bought an engine, asked someone to fit it, ragged it around the country side against advice as you seen fit then expect to instantly blame the seller or fitter of that engine. You were offered assistance immediately as soon as we were made aware (well after the incident) at cost to us, then chose to threaten and request payment without giving us the opportunity to inspect. Trading standards usual advice and rightly so is if you expect something doing about a repair issue before doing a report you must give those opportunity to check it before anyone touches it and rectify if any issues.

You always were and still do have the opportunity to inspect it. The only difference is now it will be at a garage of my choice in the presence of other mechanics that I trust. Something, which, I am afraid you have long since lost.

i dont feel this is the place for this matter to be discussed,

this is a matter between yourselves,

i know us local lads to you mike know the current situation you've been put in, in regards to the work that has been carried out on your car, and an update when the problem is resolved one way or another would be fine, but it shouldnt be brought up over the forum for everyone to see, it puts yourself in a worst place for having a case if that what it ends up at, hopefully sorted before it comes to that.

i feel the origional subject of asking if the engine can be fitted to a non vvt car is a valid question and competent owners/mechanics can answer your questions but to start having it out over the forum isnt the way to do it,

Regardless of all Lil_me is saying you should have realised that the engine wouldnt work it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise that there would be no wiring harness or capability to make it work to its correct capacity.
I fit engine if someone came to me with a daft idea i would rather look into it and tell them no than end up with egg on my face

As for oh you shouldnt have gone out and given the engine a hard time im assuming that it wasnt a brand new engine that required running in so why would you need to take it easy ? are 2nd hand engines required to be run in nowadays :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think you are right Crock - time for this to go private until resolution is found. Slanging matches are good for neither Smoggy nor the mechanics.

I really hope this gets sorted quickly and happily

Just for the record Mike you are right. People can keep on quoting and re-quoting each other. I just needed to get my points out. I know what I know and do not like being taken a lend of.

I appreciate that the forum is not for that purpose and that Martin does not approve of such topics and quite rightly so.

I will say no more on the matter regardless of any further unfounded scathing remarks that have or remain to be posted.
However if anyone should wish to pm me with their comments positive or negative. I welcome your views and appreciate your interest.
Smoggy.