INEOS GRENDIER - What do you guys think?

lightning wrote: You could always buy an old Defender for genuine adventure trips.
They are still unsurpassed for this purpose for various reasons.....if you get a good one.

You hit the nail right on the head with those last few words - "if you get a good one" To me that sums up the challenge for both Ineos and Land Rover with the production of 4X4 vehicles. What a damning indictment of design and QA that your ownership and driving pleasure are dependent upon the lottery of getting a good one. Reminds me of the days when folk used to moan about buying a Friday or a Monday car, or the one assembled by a team of apprentices or political activists. Having bought a new Land Rover and had it fully maintained by their dealerships - it was evident that after 60 years of production, the Defender was not being produced to a consistently high standard using high quality components. Crawling over any 2014 Defender reveals the whole sorry state of cost-cutting and changing ownership - there's components from old British Leyland days, bits off Fords, TATA sourced bits etc. The after-sales experience was awful - with the frustration of a dealer network who couldn't fix the product without return visits and lots of angst. The Defender ownership concept really appealed to me - as does the Grenadier. Personally, I will wait to see the reality of the new Ineos vehicle, reliability issues and the new dealership network, before I make any commitment to purchase. As for Land Rover, I cannot see me making another purchase - too much angst and not enough smiles. So in the short term it looks like I will stick with my Suzuki - which continues to put a grin on my face and only goes to the dealer for a service once a year (unlike my Land Rover). I welcome Ineos entering the market - hope they can establish themselves as serious players with a reliable and competitive product.

So what do we think will be LR's intended/hoped for market?

Roger

Certainly not me as a farmer. Unfortunately. They could have tried with both of them to make a vehicle that wasn't so much a tarts hand bag as a tweed shooting jacket. But they haven't. And unfortunately much as it sticks in my throat it's looking very likely that Dreadnaught is going to be joined in the fleet by a D-Max because no one is producing a small pickup that can tow and that's a shame.

Roger Fairclough wrote: So what do we think will be LR's intended/hoped for market?

Roger

It's a good question. And if I'm honest, I'm not sure even JLR have the answer.

Observationally, it would appear they have designed the Defender to primarily steal sales from the Discovery 5, Range Rover Sport and Velar. Which to me seems a barmy business model.

The problems with the old Defender seemed to get worse with the later TDCi (post 2007) versions

Cost were cut and dealers seemed to be completely useless at rectifying faults.
The Ford engine used was not great either.

My friend bought a 2014 Defender and eventually rejected it outright, mainly due to dealer incompetence.
If you do own an old Defender, find a local specialist and use them.
l have a feeling that the Grenadier will be somewhat better made than the old Defender, and l would also be willing to bet that all the Land Rover specialists will step up to the task of looking after them.

Jim Ratcliffe has just sealed the fate of the Grenadier, he is going to make it in France.