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Engine turns but doesn't fire

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31 Dec 2018 12:22 - 31 Dec 2018 12:27 #199773 by jimnydave
Hi all - I have a rare late soft-top with a VVT engine and yesterday it refused to start although it was turning over quite happily. No previous issues - it's been running fine. Also no engine management light or anything showing on my OBD app. Looking around the forum it seems this is commonly caused by a faulty crankshaft sensor, but I'm reluctant to splash out on one unless I'm reasonably certain it will fix it (quite apart from the fact that it seems to be a bit of a b*gger to get at). What else should I check first? Can the sensor just fail overnight? The fuel pump appears to be running OK if the whirring I can hear through the filler pipe is anything to go by. All suggestions gratefully received.
Last edit: 31 Dec 2018 12:27 by jimnydave.

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31 Dec 2018 13:07 - 31 Dec 2018 13:11 #199775 by jackonlyjack
Last edit: 31 Dec 2018 13:11 by jackonlyjack.

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31 Dec 2018 15:18 #199783 by Delux
Replied by Delux on topic Engine turns but doesn't fire
If you have an app that can read fault codes you should be able to see some sort of data list.
Looking at the data list you should be able to read the engine rpm. If the figure does not change then its possible the crank sensor is faulty.

I, personally think you are jumping the gun a bit.
Are the spark plugs sparking?
Is the fuel actually spraying good fuel out the injectors?
Perhaps its just flooded?

Start with the basics, can you smell petrol under the bonnet after turning it over for a bit? That would indicate the engine has flooded.
No fuel smell, is fuel getting to the engine? Electric fuel pumps run noisier if they have no fuel to pump.
Before you risk spraying fuel all over the engine bay, remove the spark plugs. Are they ok? If not, when were they last changed? If ok, check for a spark.
No spark = cam sensor or crank sensor or immobiliser problem. Sparks = Possible fuel issue. Check the fuses (all of them!) to make sure injector drivers/ecu feeds are all ok.
THEN, if you need to remove the fuel pipe at the fuel rail, point the pipe into a jar or something and have an assistant turn the ignition on for a few seconds.

Searching the forum/googling and apps are great for additional information but you have to start with the basics.



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31 Dec 2018 16:56 #199786 by jimnydave
Nope, not an immobiliser problem. I have a second broken key that I tried, and that flashes the padlock light which the main key doesn't, so I think I can rule that out, but thanks anyway.

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31 Dec 2018 17:00 #199787 by jimnydave
Thanks for this detailed response - I'll run through this tomorrow. If it's flooded, I believe the old carburettor method of clearing it by flooring the accelerator doesn't work any more so how do you clear it? Also it misbehaved immediately on trying to start from cold so never had a chance to flood I would reckon. As for the plugs, would one dodgy plug produce these symptoms? It seems unlikely that all four have failed simultaneously. But you're right, checking for a spark will narrow it down so thanks again!

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31 Dec 2018 17:26 #199789 by jackonlyjack
I might be wrong here but i am sure if you hold accelerator pedal to floor and try to start it
the ecu doesn't allow any fuel through so in theory this would clear the flood

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31 Dec 2018 20:57 #199799 by Delux
Replied by Delux on topic Engine turns but doesn't fire
You are right, Jack. 'Clear flood mode'. Foot flat on floor then lift it 5mm and turn it over! Most Japanese makes have the same thing!

Jimnydave, Assuming all 4 spark plugs were fitted at the same time to the same engine they will all be in the same condition. So if one spark plug has failed do you think the other 3 are going to be as they were when you fitted them?

Also, most starting issues I have experienced happen when the engine is cold because the injector pulse is longest then so more fuel pumps in.



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01 Jan 2019 16:14 #199833 by jimnydave
Thanks for all the advice on here - checked for spark, all OK, next was to check fuel actually getting through but thought I'd try it again, lo and behold it started and hasn't dropped a beat since. Hope I'm not speaking too soon but looks like just one of those things - crap in the fuel? Air in the fuel line? I'd just filled the tank so who knows? I'll do a longer run in daylight tomorrow and hope to put it down to experience, but thanks again for all the input.

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02 Jan 2019 15:59 #199897 by Delux
Replied by Delux on topic Engine turns but doesn't fire
If all you done was remove the spark plugs, turn it over and it started it sounds like it was flooded.

I'd treat it to a new set of spark plugs. Check the engine coolant temp sensor is reading accurately in the data list.

Crap in the fuel usually happens because the fuel level has been run very low in the tank allowing corrosion into the pipes or water is getting in thru a corroded filler neck or tank. Constantly low fuel level and lack of use allows condensation to build up inside the top of the tank.
If you only have problems with low fuel level it would back that up.



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04 Jan 2019 20:57 - 04 Jan 2019 21:01 #200031 by Johnniehec
To pick up on your first comment Jimnydave, my daughter has an 06 reg soft top, what age is yours?
Several anomalies, aside the VVT, it’s metallic red with matching bumpers and arches, it has the older front disks, with the larger centre, so if you’re ever ordering these use an older reg number. I ordered a pair with the 06 reg and they wouldn’t fit but luckily I had a pair ordered for my 02 reg which did.

On the 8th Day God made the LandRover -
On the 9th day he swapped it for a Jimny.
Last edit: 04 Jan 2019 21:01 by Johnniehec. Reason: Addition

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05 Jan 2019 08:09 #200039 by jimnydave
Mine was registered 24 March 06 so had an 06 plate. I understand Santana stopped exporting the soft tops to the UK in 05 so this would have been one of the last and sat around for a few months before being sold. It also seems they only fitted the VVT engines to the soft tops for a very few months. By my reckoning the car's a Type 5 according to the table on the forum; details are difficult though because nobody (even Suzuki) seems to have the records of the VINs for the Spanish vehicles. Mine's red all over but not metallic. Good tip about the brake discs though! Thanks for that and keep in touch, sounds like we could be useful to each other!

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05 Jan 2019 10:46 - 05 Jan 2019 10:48 #200042 by Max Headroom
JimnyDave, I think we might have the same model; mine is an 06 convertible VVT, so a bit of an annomoly as I understand.

So far I've had no starting issues but my engine cranks a few more turns than I'd like on a cold mornings before it lights, so a new battery may be required in the near future.

I'm a big advocate of 'using' up as much fuel in the tank as possible. Doing this continually, helps to ensure any small amounts of crap or water in the bottom of the tank always get drawn through to the filter, but you need to be confident that there is very little crap in the tank in the first place or it will cause big problems! I always fill the tank to the brim rather than just top up 'a bit'.
If the car is left standing for any length of time, again, as Delux mentioned, fill the tank to the brim to reduce the amount of condensation that can form.

An odd problem I had with a (proper BMC) Mini was that unless the fuel tank was full to the brim, it would cut-out going up a local steep hill. This was a weak (mechanical) fuel pump - probably a knackered diaphragm in the pump. I'm not sure how the Jimny pump operates but it's just a thought.


IF IT AINT BROKE, KEEP FIXING IT UNTIL IT IS
Last edit: 05 Jan 2019 10:48 by Max Headroom.

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