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Lockers

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15 Oct 2021 22:07 #239441 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lockers
That's what everyone seems to think but actually the opposite is true. In 4wd it goes wherever the front wheels are pointed, quite literally. The turning circle is the same as before. It's very different to a locked rear that is always trying to push you straight.
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16 Oct 2021 09:21 #239450 by Keithy
Replied by Keithy on topic Lockers
You can have all the electronic aids in the world and enjoy wheels spinning and grabbing......or push the button and engage lockers......nice controlled ascent/traverse.

Can only imagine how a locked spool can have the same turning circle as an open diff.......welcome to the internet.

 
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16 Oct 2021 12:07 #239452 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Lockers

Can only imagine how a locked spool can have the same turning circle as an open diff.......welcome to the internet.


 
It's a welded diff rather than a spool. I couldn't find anyone that made a spool for the front axle. And as it's in the steering axle the vehicle goes in whatever direction the front wheels are pointing. It really is that simple! People associate locked diffs with poor steering because they are almost exclusively fitted to the rear axle. Mine isn't.
 
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16 Oct 2021 15:59 #239454 by Obarno
Replied by Obarno on topic Lockers
To go back to the original question I have ARB lockers back and front in my Jimny and they really are good. One of the big advantages is that you can approach a difficult climb or obstacle slowly rather than using speed to get over it. I have done a lot of off roading in southern France where there are many tracks that are rocky and have steps etc. I find them particularly good for these situations. An upside is that you always have an air compressor for blowing up the tyres!

Manual VVT, 2 1/2" lift, ORA castor corrected arms, 2" ORA body lift, 4:1 transfer box, Uprated front shafts & CVs ERM , ARBs back & front 3.9 diffs, 6 point cage, ORA winch bumper - Superwinch EP9, ORA rear bumper, ORA axle truses, Diff guards ERM , TBR tank guard, Snorkel, Kumho KL71.30.9.50 15
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22 Oct 2021 20:36 #239566 by lookonimages
Replied by lookonimages on topic Re:Lockers

Busta wrote:

Can only imagine how a locked spool can have the same turning circle as an open diff.......welcome to the internet.


 
It's a welded diff rather than a spool. I couldn't find anyone that made a spool for the front axle. And as it's in the steering axle the vehicle goes in whatever direction the front wheels are pointing. It really is that simple! People associate locked diffs with poor steering because they are almost exclusively fitted to the rear axle. Mine isn't.
 


busta, reviving this thread as this had me thinking a lot this last couple days.

so on gen4 when I select 4x4 with the short stick, then the hubs also lock. when disengaged 4x4 with the short stick, then hubs disengage.

this means in 4x4 the hubs locked and 4x2 the front hubs is open (not locked)

am I then correct to say I can just weld the front diff. I will have full diff lock in 4x4 and freewheeling front hubs in 4x2 scenarios, and I have nothing else to do to make it work..

Sent from my SM-A505F using Tapatalk
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22 Oct 2021 22:47 - 22 Oct 2021 22:50 #239567 by yakuza
Replied by yakuza on topic Re:Lockers
Yes lookon that is correct.
However I would never do this. I have had lockers front and rear and with short wheelbase car you will soon go tired. As mine were positraction and let the faster Rolling wheel free, it was a bit better than the spool or welded diff. But still a real pain unless when you were offroading. If the car is a trailer queen only for offroad use then maybe for the rear. But if the car has any road use, or used in snow never would I put such a device in my car again.
ARB in the rear now. When I get rich, one in the front as well. 

Norway 2005 Jimny M16A VVT, 235 BFG MT, 2" Trailmaster, ARB rear lck, 17%/87% high/low gears.
Last edit: 22 Oct 2021 22:50 by yakuza.
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23 Oct 2021 09:11 #239568 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Re:Lockers
Yakuza is correct. To permanently lock the front diff - spool or welded diff, they are the same thing in reality - and then to try and use it on a public road would make you lethal. You would have doubled or tripled your turning circle and driving would be difficult and dangerous.

In my opinion this is madness.

Roger
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23 Oct 2021 09:34 #239569 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Re:Lockers
Hi Lookon, I'm pleased it's got you thinking. In theory it's that simple, but ideally you want a bit more control over the front hubs. On my Gen3 this was as simple as unplugging the 4wd connector on the transfer case and routing it to a switch in the cabin. This allows me to switch the hubs on and off much quicker, especially handy if you are in low range. Of course this also gives the option of using low range in 2wd which is very handy if you want to drive slow or need extra torque without needing 4wd regardless of what you do with the front diff.
It should also be said that extra caution must be used when engaging the front axle with a welded diff. On a grippy surface it's a complete no-no, and will wreck the CVs in short order. Anything grippier than wet grass is a no. On road is a no unless it's completely snow covered. You should also expect a much shorter service life for the front CVs, simply because you are making them work twice as hard. My vehicle is only mildly modified with 215/75 mud terrains. If you're already stressing the driveline with much bigger tyres then a welded front diff will be a step too far. It's also not advisable if you have manual hubs, as you will need to be getting in and out the car even more than normal. I have gone to extra steps to make my vacuum hubs completely reliable, and I carry the tools needed to manually unlock them if needed. I'm not telling you not to do it, but these are all things you need to consider.
In reply to other comments, a locked front diff is completely different to a locked rear or locked front and locked rear combined. It DOES NOT limit the turning circle!
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23 Oct 2021 10:52 #239570 by Roger Fairclough
Replied by Roger Fairclough on topic Re:Lockers
The concept of steering is that the front wheels turn at different speeds. If you force the two wheels to turn at the same speed then the vehicle will attempt to travel in a straight line. The steering will become heavier and the whole vehicle will buck about as the tyres loose grip or something in the driveline breaks.
The turning circle will increase and this is something that must be accepted.
The comment "does not LIMIT the turning circle" does not apply because the turning circle has already been increased.
If you still have reservations then I suggest you check out the web.

Roger
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23 Oct 2021 12:02 #239573 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Re:Lockers

Yakuza is correct. To permanently lock the front diff - spool or welded diff, they are the same thing in reality - and then to try and use it on a public road would make you lethal. You would have doubled or tripled your turning circle and driving would be difficult and dangerous.

In my opinion this is madness.

Roger

But you wouldn't be in 4x4 on the road in a Jimny anyway regardless of if you have a welded front axle or not you will kill your transmission. Remembering that the front driveline of the Jimny is double isolated in 4x2 then a welded diff simply cannot affect the steering as its not connected to anything.

Off road a connected welded front axle makes no difference to the turning circle simply because the surface being driven over is sufficiently low traction to negate the effect of the wheels turning at the same speed. As long as the angle of the front wheels is able to change relatively to the direction of travel then they will attempt to change the direction of travel to the best ability of their available traction.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Busta, lookonimages
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23 Oct 2021 12:45 #239575 by lookonimages
Replied by lookonimages on topic Re:Re:Lockers
Busta
thanks for shedding some more light on the subject.

I am more curious about the welded hubs, not really considering it, but everyday we learn something new. thanks for broadening my technical insight to alternative options.

Lambert
yes I agree completely with u regarding the turning circle And as long as front hubs are free, there is absolute no difference even if the diff has been welded. If you ever need 4x4 you definately on gravel. so in my case immaterial really and turning circle not an aspect really to consider. in my case the intention to drive 4x4 onroad with locked hubs is an absolute zero.


but thanks guys, at least I now know of one more alternative way to increase 4x4 ability for the serious off readers.

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23 Oct 2021 12:46 - 23 Oct 2021 12:48 #239576 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Re:Lockers
I made a video for those hard of understanding. The car is in 4wd, welded diff and all, throughout the video. And bear in mind this is a relatively grippy surface, certainly not one where you would normally use 4wd.

Last edit: 23 Oct 2021 12:48 by Busta.
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