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BigJimnyMeet (North) 2024 (12 Jan 2024)


BigJimnyMeet 2024

14th July 2024
Parkwood Nr. Leeds

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Re:Re:Re:Jimny pulling to right

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01 Sep 2021 09:22 - 01 Sep 2021 11:26 #238099 by lookonimages
Sorry for long post but try and cover all info as best as I can to eliminate guessing.

Background:
Jimny 2019 gen4 - right hand drive (south africa).
Usage: With covid lockdown, no 4x4ing / overlanding and only tar road roads driving with 14000km on the clock.
Do have 50mm lift (coil spring and shock lift)
Do have 215/75/15 AT fitted.
Have adjustable panhard bar front fitted just now.

The history of changes made.
After the lift (without the adjustable panhard bar and before fitment of new tires)
1) the steering wheel was slightly off to right. Wheel allignment was done and car tracked pefect straight albeit the steering wheel was not centered.
2) the wheel tracking in relation to chassis was not centered anymore and confirmed with lots of measurement. First just manually after 50mm lift, but then also with machine measuring and confirming it.
3) whenever we set steering to be centre as per martins instructional video, the vehicle pull right, even after wheel alligments at 2 different shops locally in my home town

---- Result.
Suzuki, wheel alignment centres told me I need to fit an adjustable panhard bar.
We set back the steering wheel to be slightly off centre and at least the car was tracking 100% straight. I decided to leave steering wheel off centre while I wait for adjustable panhard bar.

Month later then I fitted the new tyres. Everything stayed the same and wheel alignment was check but nothing was adjusted. All readings was still within spec. So I take it the wheels did not introduce anything "funny".

Now 4x4 shop and wheelalignment garage (one of best 4x4 garages in Cape Town) have fitted the adjustable panhard bar and did do the following
1) tyre presures have been checked and set so they all the same before any changes was made.
2) the alignment of wheels and chassis has been set to be perfect centre with chassis (panhardt rod adjusted).
3) wheel alignment has been performed and the steering wheel has been adjusted to be straight again.

However, when testing after wheel allignment, the jimny pull right just like the first time couple months ago when 50mm lift was added.

The shop then swapped wheels to ensure it is not a case of tire pul (conicity).
Wheel alignment was rechecked.
In drive test the car still pull right. It is almost when you drive there is something pushing steering right.

I was then instructed to take it to a power steering specialist. They performed.
1) they first drove it to confirm pulling to right.
2) they plugged in computor to see if electronic steering assist setting was correct. They showed me the computor parameters and i saw that they was also pefectly set, showing that electronic power steering was working correctly.
3) they then also removed the steering damper shock to eliminate that that might introduce some force while driving.

But it is still pulling right.!!!
The power steering and 4x4 fitment centre said it can then only be the 50mm lift that was fitted, but I cannot see how when all parameters has been brought back into line with adjustable panhard bar and proper wheel alignment and steering rod adjusted to bring steering wheel back to centre.

any ideas
Anyone have experienced this before and who might shed some light for me on the subject or what I can have tested more.

Will now alsi add back adjustable panhard rod - this is driving me nuts. :)








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Last edit: 01 Sep 2021 11:26 by lookonimages.

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01 Sep 2021 12:26 - 01 Sep 2021 13:32 #238109 by lookonimages
Found an interesting point made by Martin that I will investigate.

The vehicle has been undercoated (though it was lanolin based) and maybe it could have relation somehow as only brakes can be last thing that has not yet been checked.

bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/7-jimny-tec...of-the-road?start=24
Last edit: 01 Sep 2021 13:32 by lookonimages.

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01 Sep 2021 12:38 - 01 Sep 2021 12:41 #238110 by lightning
Replied by lightning on topic Re:Jimny pulling to right
Sounds like your modifications have altered the geometry of the suspension, or the general balance of the vehicle.

That could cause all manner of handling and steering issues, it happens with Land Rovers.

Hard to know what to suggest if you want to retain the lift kit and larger tyres, except to check the steering geometry as far as it can be adjusted.
Last edit: 01 Sep 2021 12:41 by lightning.
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01 Sep 2021 13:38 - 01 Sep 2021 13:40 #238112 by lookonimages

lightning wrote: Sounds like your modifications have altered the geometry of the suspension, or the general balance of the vehicle.

That could cause all manner of handling and steering issues, it happens with Land Rovers.

Hard to know what to suggest if you want to retain the lift kit and larger tyres, except to check the steering geometry as far as it can be adjusted.

Yes indeed. Just that all places said that the obvious things has been checked and is within specs. (The only thing up to now that has not been explored is a possible braking impact)

This seems to be a funny but I will keep investigating whatever you guys can add as a posibility.

But acoording to me it started with the lift so somehow something impacts something, but what it is we dont know yet. :)
I was so sure that it was panhard rod related, but now it seem it was not.
Last edit: 01 Sep 2021 13:40 by lookonimages.

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01 Sep 2021 13:41 #238113 by Roger Fairclough
There are a number of void bushes in a suspension and steering system. These must be slackened off when the suspension or steering is modified and then re-torqued to specification afterwards. Prior to re-torque, the vehicle must have it's wheels on the ground. Also bounce the vehicle a few times to settle everything down.

Roger
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01 Sep 2021 15:16 #238115 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Re:Jimny pulling to right
Has the kit that you used to lift the Jimny made any provision to correct the castor angle, either with new arms or correction bushes? Thinking it could possibly be worth accurately measuring the distance between the centre of the axles on each side and comparing. If the front and rear axles are not parallel to each other and also at exactly 90 degrees to the thrust axis of the car that could cause the issue.

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01 Sep 2021 15:27 #238116 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Re:Jimny pulling to right
Also thinking about it more are the new tyres the same size or bigger than standard and are they fitted to the original wheels or aftermarket ones? Thinking that if you have altered the scrub radius of the wheels you may be putting additional drag into the steering which may not be being expressed evenly if something isn't quite aligned perfectly. It's also worth noting that within tolerance isn't the same as perfect and Jimny is historically very sensitive to the front axle being perfect.

Temeraire (2018 quasar grey automatic)
One of the last 200ish of the gen3s, probably.
ADOS Attention Deficit Ooooh Shiny!
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01 Sep 2021 15:43 #238118 by lookonimages

Lambert wrote: Also thinking about it more are the new tyres the same size or bigger than standard and are they fitted to the original wheels or aftermarket ones? Thinking that if you have altered the scrub radius of the wheels you may be putting additional drag into the steering which may not be being expressed evenly if something isn't quite aligned perfectly. It's also worth noting that within tolerance isn't the same as perfect and Jimny is historically very sensitive to the front axle being perfect.


Thank Lambert I have thought about scrub radius as I read about it in my google searches but I do not fully understand concept, but have added it to my list of possibilities.

Tyres basically one size bigger (215/75/R15) but still using the original rims.

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01 Sep 2021 15:46 #238119 by lookonimages

Lambert wrote: Has the kit that you used to lift the Jimny made any provision to correct the castor angle, either with new arms or correction bushes? Thinking it could possibly be worth accurately measuring the distance between the centre of the axles on each side and comparing. If the front and rear axles are not parallel to each other and also at exactly 90 degrees to the thrust axis of the car that could cause the issue.

That is why I just ordered a new adjustable panhard rod for the back also as that is also a thing I have read about in the meantime googling.
But to be honest, no I have not measured the back. Thought if front is ok all is ok.

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01 Sep 2021 15:52 - 01 Sep 2021 15:53 #238120 by lookonimages

Roger Fairclough wrote: There are a number of void bushes in a suspension and steering system. These must be slackened off when the suspension or steering is modified and then re-torqued to specification afterwards. Prior to re-torque, the vehicle must have it's wheels on the ground. Also bounce the vehicle a few times to settle everything down.

Roger

Thanks Roger. Very insightfull comment. These has not been done definately as they allowed me to watch while they doing it and I have not seen them doing something to that order. Basically they just took off the old shocks and springs and I put in new shocks and springs and that was only things they loosened and fastened.

Mind sharing maybe to explain what bushes you are refering to, so that I can ask the fitment centre specifically.


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Last edit: 01 Sep 2021 15:53 by lookonimages.

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01 Sep 2021 17:02 #238124 by Roger Fairclough
Void bushes are used to reduce NVH, Noise, Vibration and Harshness. Two steel tubes one inside the other with the space between filled with rubber. Other name is a suspension bush. Only use genuine ones if you need new ones as cheap really are rubbish.

This is a classic situation that the people who fit suspension systems can't be bothered to do it properly.

It is important otherwise you can finish up with unbalanced suspension.

Also, whilst I am feverishly typing - tea is on it's way - shock absorbers need to be "Settled" before fitting:-

Single tube high pressure type like Gabriel no problem because the gas - usually nitrogen - cant mix.

Twin tube, low pressure without foam insert definitely do. Hold shock upright and force rod all the way down. Allow rod to return to top and repeat 5 more times. Last push down should be smooth all the way. Fit the shock but do not allow the shock to move beyond 45 degrees or you stand the chance of the nitrogen getting back into the oil.

Twin tube with foam insert. Supposed not to need bleeding but for the time needed I would do it.

Roger
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01 Sep 2021 17:53 #238125 by lookonimages

Roger Fairclough wrote: Void bushes are used to reduce NVH, Noise, Vibration and Harshness. Two steel tubes one inside the other with the space between filled with rubber. Other name is a suspension bush. Only use genuine ones if you need new ones as cheap really are rubbish.

This is a classic situation that the people who fit suspension systems can't be bothered to do it properly.

It is important otherwise you can finish up with unbalanced suspension.

Also, whilst I am feverishly typing - tea is on it's way - shock absorbers need to be "Settled" before fitting:-

Single tube high pressure type like Gabriel no problem because the gas - usually nitrogen - cant mix.

Twin tube, low pressure without foam insert definitely do. Hold shock upright and force rod all the way down. Allow rod to return to top and repeat 5 more times. Last push down should be smooth all the way. Fit the shock but do not allow the shock to move beyond 45 degrees or you stand the chance of the nitrogen getting back into the oil.

Twin tube with foam insert. Supposed not to need bleeding but for the time needed I would do it.

Roger

Thank you kindly Roger. Today I learned something.

That is why I love this forum.

The hands on experience here is phenominal and it is clear that a lot of people here have obtained their knowledge over many many years and I thank you each for taking time to explain in language even us non technical can understand but most importantly willingness to share experience and knowledge.

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