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48mph wobble??????? help/advice wanted please

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16 Nov 2020 13:15 - 16 Nov 2020 13:35 #230094 by Halsey
Hi,
2013 Jim done 30k on Duellers 20psi all round - took to GOOD local "proper" garage (but not Jimny experts) with a sloppy feel on the front end and a wobble under braking - they investigated road tested etc - balanced all 4 wheels and replaced front brake discs and pads which has made a big difference BUT Whilst generally the car feels a lot better and tighter I am left with a quite specific problem in that when the car is on normal county roads (not a by pass) and hits between 45-50 on the speedo (quite specifically on 48!) a wobble starts up and if the speed can be kept constant the wobble develops into something with quite a bit of energy to it through the steering wheel.
The garage have asked me to engage with you guys to save me paying for wasted ideas and investigation time as they have checked everything and can't find anything loose or worn - is there a family failing that could be the cause - the car has been with me for 6 months and has had quite a bit of rough country road potholes type driving whereas before I think it had a pretty quiet life with its 2 previous owners using it for shopping trips.
Thanks in anticipation of your help
Cheers
J

White 2013 Jim and 2016 Vitara AllGrip
Last edit: 16 Nov 2020 13:35 by Halsey.

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16 Nov 2020 13:58 - 16 Nov 2020 14:03 #230096 by Scimike
It's likely that you have a worn kingpin bearing.
Any oil around the swivel?
It's the top of a long list of things that can cause wobble, but it's at the top. All the steering components add friction, or damping, as they wear the damping is reduced until the natural frequency of the Jimny Wobble (45 - 50mph) sets in.

So check for any vertical movement in the front wheels or oil around the swivels and report back.

You can fit a steering damper which helps (now standard on the Gen4), but I would say that if it starts without hitting a pot hole you have something in the steering that is worn or failing. Without external influences (hole or rough road) wobble will not start on a Jimny in good order.

Yokohama Geolanders, Sony 2D head unit, Elvis Bobblehead, Jimnybits transfer Guard, Hand crafted Indian hanging Elephant, Koni Heavy track dampers, Voodoo Doll with pins (active spell - I believe it's working), Jimnybits Adventure Rack, towbar, Light bar and vintage caravan.
Last edit: 16 Nov 2020 14:03 by Scimike.

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16 Nov 2020 14:44 #230101 by Halsey
Thanks - I'm trying to build up a consensus to give the garage a short-list of things to check out - kingpins do seem to be a definite favourite.
Speed build up creates the circumstances of the wobble not a specific issue like a porthole etc
Once I have a short-list I will re-engage with the garage and report back but it may be a while coming............
Thanks again.......

White 2013 Jim and 2016 Vitara AllGrip

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16 Nov 2020 15:36 #230105 by DrRobin
Hi,

This is a well known problem on Jimnys, so much that when I bought mine 2011 last year I took my hands off the steering wheel at around 50mph to check. I don't think the sales man noticed me doing it. Anyway there is a slight wobble of the steering wheel between 45 and 50mph on my Jimny even on a smooth road, its more annoying than anything else and I try to avoid the speed range for any length of time.

Mine is not that bad, my passenger doesn't notice it, just me. I am going to check the King pins when I get chance and nothing showed up on a recent MOT/service so mine is probably okay.

Mike has probably set you on the right track, but see this article for a full description.

www.bigjimny.com/mediawiki/index.php/Death_Wobble

Robin

2011 Blue Jimny SZ3, Xtrons Head Unit, DAB, Front and Rear Cameras, TPMS, K&N, Bosch Aerotwin blades, LED side and interior lights, boot light, parcel shelf, boot box, dash box. Osram Nightbreakers, CTEK Battery Sense.

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16 Nov 2020 16:12 - 16 Nov 2020 16:16 #230108 by Halsey
Thanks - I have identified a local 4x4 specialist (I didn't know we had one) and they instantly said kingpin/swivel bearings and are working out a price - if its do-able I'll let them have it to test validate and fit.

My long(er) standing garage who are VG can continue to maintain our other car - hopefully keeping everyone happy and moving forward.

Am I running too low a pressure at 20psi all round?

Also what about the theory of old tyres also not helping this issue - these could just about be the originals although from the mileage history more likely 5 years old

Are some tyres better than others in "helping" avoid this issue happening again?

J

White 2013 Jim and 2016 Vitara AllGrip
Last edit: 16 Nov 2020 16:16 by Halsey.

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16 Nov 2020 16:30 - 16 Nov 2020 22:05 #230109 by Scimike
Everything is a contribution, but standard sized tyres that are a little old are not going to impact much. Larger tyres can highlight the issue more.
The swivel bearings actually have a preload which helps to damp things down. As they wear this preload reduces and everything loosens up, so wobble becomes more apparent. So it's possible for the bearings to not show any external signs that they are failing, but the preload has long gone. More often they are a rusty mess that just fall apart when you change them.
Your tyre pressure is lower than the Suzuki recommendation (about 23 front 26 rear), but lower pressure is better on a Jimny than higher.

I run a steering damper to help with the feel of the steering, I personally found it a little light. It also has the benefit of helping with any oscillation, but it's not a fix for worn out steering components. Martin (big Jimny) also sells preload washers to add the the kingpin bearings to help achieve or increase the load on the kingpin bearings. It should be noted that Suzuki don't fit the washers, so if everything else is in good order just changing the bearings should be sufficient.
Mike

Yokohama Geolanders, Sony 2D head unit, Elvis Bobblehead, Jimnybits transfer Guard, Hand crafted Indian hanging Elephant, Koni Heavy track dampers, Voodoo Doll with pins (active spell - I believe it's working), Jimnybits Adventure Rack, towbar, Light bar and vintage caravan.
Last edit: 16 Nov 2020 22:05 by Scimike.
The following user(s) said Thank You: TillymintDLG

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17 Nov 2020 07:45 #230130 by Halsey
Thanks for all of this - I'm going to get the king pins sorted AND fit a steering damper kit - but which one??
I assume these kits don't affect std insurance and don't need declaring - I am assuming using bolt ons not welded - Armstrong raptor or pro comp all at Jimny bits
Advice based on experience please and on a "normal" use standard car
I'm going to keep this one until the 4th Gen are sensible money (in a couple of years I guess) so its worth spending a bit
Cheers
J

White 2013 Jim and 2016 Vitara AllGrip

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17 Nov 2020 08:45 - 17 Nov 2020 13:29 #230131 by Scimike
I think a start is to get the kingpin bearings checked and replaced and take it from there.

Once the wobble is essentially fixed, then a steering damper is a personal choice. They tend to be fitted to off road modified vehicles as the larger tyres usually fitted are more likely to induce wobble, it just keeps the extra mass a little more under control.

When I first purchased my Jimny found the steering (no wobble) a little light on the road compared to my other vehicles and any pot holes, of which we have many, would move the steering more than I liked. I fitted a damper kit from eBay, a bolt on one, it made the steering feel a little more like a "normal" car on the road to me. Our Jimny now feels very similar to the VW Polo TDI it replaced.
I have read on here that some don't like dampers as it removes the self centering of the steering, but I have to say this has not been the case on my Jimny, it's great and one of the better things I've fitted.
It the kit is nothing special, the chassis bracket has a notch for the cross tube to get it inline better with the steering rod and uses a cheap Land Rover steering damper. If I recall it was the "standard kit".
For road use I see no reason to pay for premium brands and my cheap end kit is still working perfectly so quality / life expectancy is not an issue.

My experience above is based on my 2009 totally standard road only use Jimny.

A damper is something you can fit yourself in .5 hour with only basic tools if you don't want to involve the garage.

Re insurance :- no impact at all on insurance along with my roofrack and towbar. Just tell them at renewal, they don't care at all about these items.

Have fun
Mike
Edit:-
Kit on eBay that looks the same as the one I fitted but different supplier
ebay.us/nReq0f

Yokohama Geolanders, Sony 2D head unit, Elvis Bobblehead, Jimnybits transfer Guard, Hand crafted Indian hanging Elephant, Koni Heavy track dampers, Voodoo Doll with pins (active spell - I believe it's working), Jimnybits Adventure Rack, towbar, Light bar and vintage caravan.
Last edit: 17 Nov 2020 13:29 by Scimike. Reason: Found a eBay kit
The following user(s) said Thank You: TillymintDLG, Halsey

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18 Nov 2020 20:36 #230189 by TillymintDLG
Had the same problem with shimmyitus so had a pre MOT check at the local Suzuki dealers, I struck it lucky as the guy doing the check is an MOT tester too! Anyway, he said the King Pins were solid.
Personally, I would fit an S Damper first (cheapest option) to see if it stops your problem.You may be pleasantly surprised as I was! www.bigjimny.com/index.php/forum/6-jimny...ay?start=4680#228124

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19 Nov 2020 04:21 #230190 by Lambert
Kingpins being solid doesn't always mean they're good. I have had a set that exhibited no movement but on closer inspection that was because they were rusted solid and the pins were rotating in the inner races.

Temeraire (2018 grey)
The following user(s) said Thank You: mlines

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19 Nov 2020 06:12 #230191 by mlines
I agree with Lambert. I had one in the past that was completely "solid" when testing for wear. It was only when dismantled was it clear it had completely rusted up

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses

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19 Nov 2020 07:45 - 19 Nov 2020 07:47 #230192 by sniper
I bought my car knowing that all of the suspension was original and very tired at 72k on a 13 year old 05' plate car.

I set about changing springs, dampers, bushes, track rod ends, bearings, across each axle, doing both sides when one needed service. With the front end rebuilt and in top condition, I fitted a steering damper and enjoyed the heavier feel and the reduction of road chatter in the feedback. Found it much more solid and more in keeping with how I felt a car should feel.

Then I fitted Trailgear H/D steering bars, they are very strong bars fitted with Toyota LJ rods ends which are maybe a 3rd bigger than the Suzuki originals. You have to ream out the steering arms to accept them, the ream is supplied in the kit. Vast improvement in steering feel, cars feels larger almost like an LJ.

Getting all of the steering and suspension components in good serviceable condition is the first step. Not always changing but at least inspecting and servicing/exchanging as required. Damper bushes and Panhard bushes a classic example of two small jobs that can bring big improvements....

Fitting a steering damper would be step 2 (damper kits start around £60-70, 20 min diy fit) you may be happy with it at that. If not fitting the Trailgear H/D bars would be about as much as you can do (£230ish and 1 hours labour to fit).

sniper

Truck Cab tray back, 1600 VVT, R7ME gearbox & manual transfer, Quaife ATB diff, 4-2-1 manifold, Tony Banks 2" stainless exhaust, K&N panel filter, Mobil One oil, Eibach springs, AVO adjustable dampers, Limit straps, BFG 16" Km2 tyres, Drilled Grooved disks, EBC Greenstuff pads, Full breather kit...
Last edit: 19 Nov 2020 07:47 by sniper.

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