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‘08 Jimny Rough Idle

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15 Feb 2024 10:59 #254329 by KimiKeemstar
Hey guys,

I’m new to the forum and a new jimny owner, so sorry if I seem a bit green.

I’ve recently bought a late ‘08 Jimny with an M13A VVT. The previous owner had the head redone due to a blown gasket, and he also blanked off the EGR which is why it’s got an EML.

I’ve been driving it a bit recently and noticed that when the engine is cold, it idles pretty alright. But when it’s been driven a while and up to temp, it idles extremely rough when I’ve stopped at a set of lights, almost feels like it’ll stall but it never does. You can also kind of smell a bit of exhaust through the aircon when it happens.

I cleared the DTC’s and scanned again when the EML came back on after a few drive cycles and it came up with a P0401(probably due to the EGR blanking) and a P0011 code.

I’ve got a few ideas to the cause due to other topics I’ve read, but just wanted some opinions from other owners for the causes of the rough idling. If there’s more symptoms needed, I’d be glad to provide info.

Thanks!
P.S. I’ve uploaded a video of the idle, hopefully the sound comes through
https:/drive.google.com/file/d/1iBwpUsGUAKcHORGqUJzyu9Ut35q9c7eC/view?usp=drivesdk

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15 Feb 2024 11:44 #254330 by rogerzilla
Replied by rogerzilla on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
It sounds as if the fuelling is off.  Is the lambda sensor switching?  It will be ok when warming up as it runs open loop according to a preset fuel map.

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15 Feb 2024 12:38 #254333 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
Thanks for the reply, I'll have a check tommorow as I've left my basic scan tool at work. I'll send some photos of the graphs for the fuel trims of both O2 sensors when I've run the car for a while.

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15 Feb 2024 14:20 #254336 by DrRobin
Replied by DrRobin on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
P0401 is insufficient EGR flow, so yes, it will come on from the valve been blanked off.

P0011 (from a search) indicates that the camshaft timing is more advanced than it is supposed to be, see below

'It indicates that the engine control module (ECM) has detected that the camshaft timing in cylinder bank 1 is more advanced than it is supposed to be. The control unit adjusts the timing based on a range of factors and data transmitted by the engine's sensors.'

It sounds like the VVT is not working correctly, or when the head was removed, something didn't go back in the correct place.

Rough idle when warm is usually a sticking 'idle air control' (IAC) valve on the throttle body, so it might be worh checking both.

Robin

2020 blue SZ5 (one of the last to be registered in the UK)
Ex 2011 Blue Jimny SZ4
Northumberland Jimny Blog

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15 Feb 2024 16:30 #254344 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
Thanks DrRobin, I'll try to take a look at the IAC this weekend. The P0011 code does worry me though, I'm not sure if the M13A is an interference engine and I'd rather not find out the hard way. Hopefully the VVT isn't so out of time that it happens. I'll have a look at it after I've checked the others.

Also, is it possible in these cars for a faulty Cam Angle Sensor to throw up a P0011 code because of a wrong reading?

Thanks

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15 Feb 2024 17:35 #254350 by DrRobin
Replied by DrRobin on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
If the VVT is sticking then no it won't cause the pistons to hit the valves. However, if the camshaft timing is out then it is possible you could get a valve strike, but possibly by now it would alread have happened.

I don't know if a faulty Cam Sensor will cause the same problem.

Try the IAC first to see if that fixes the rough idle running as the IAC only operates when the engine is warm and they are known to stick.

Robin

2020 blue SZ5 (one of the last to be registered in the UK)
Ex 2011 Blue Jimny SZ4
Northumberland Jimny Blog

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16 Feb 2024 10:17 #254369 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
Hey Roger, just had a quick look at the o2 sensor fuel trims on idle after running it for a while here’s the short term fuel trims and long term fuel trims for reference.
Attachments:

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16 Feb 2024 10:29 - 16 Feb 2024 14:12 #254370 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
 Hey Robin,

Just did a drive around and did some slightly harder acceleration as well as some higher speeds, around 70kph to see if they induced some symptoms and codes.

The idle seemed to be pretty stable when I drove gently and under 70kph, but after I drove it harder and hung around 70kph, the idle became rough, and the EML started blinking a bit.

I scanned the codes when I got home and I did end up getting more codes.
Here they are:
P0401 Raw code: 0401ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system - insufficient flow detected
P0113 Raw code: 0113ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor - high input
P0102 Raw code: 0102ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Mass air flow (MAF) sensor/volume air flow (VAF) sensor - low input
P0011 Raw code: 0011ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Camshaft position (CMP), intake/left/front, bank 1 - timing over-advanced/system performance
P0300 Raw code: 0300ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Random/multiple cylinder(s) - misfire detected 
P0304 Raw code: 0304ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Cylinder 4 - misfire detected
P0303 Raw code: 0303ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Cylinder 3 - misfire detected
P0302 Raw code: 0302ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Cylinder 2 - misfire detected
P0301 Raw code: 0301ECU: 11Status: Confirmed Cylinder 1 - misfire detected
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

So kind of worried now, talked to the previous owner and he said he replaced the IAC, which seems to be true since the IAC looks pretty shiny. I’ll probably still have a look on the weekend. I had a look at the RPM and timing advance, attached to this message. Also, decided to record another audio clip from the exhaust this time, hopefully will help.
drive.google.com/file/d/1rTbdDqKWiMdjSV6...iJ/view?usp=drivesdk

I’ll have a look at the IAC this weekend, if there’s anything else worth having a look at before I check out the VVT, please let me know.

Thanks!
 
Attachments:
Last edit: 16 Feb 2024 14:12 by KimiKeemstar. Reason: Forgot to add photo

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16 Feb 2024 14:07 #254376 by DrRobin
Replied by DrRobin on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
That is a lot of error codes to be suddenly getting. Either something is going wrong big time or there is an issue with the elctrical system.

How good is your battery? Is it well charged or is it failing? When the battery is weak you can get some strange codes pop out.

Usually fuel trims within 10% are ok, within 5% is probably normal. My 2011 fuel trims will vary as much as yours at different throttle positions (I have them on screen all of the time as I use Torque Pro).

Robin

2020 blue SZ5 (one of the last to be registered in the UK)
Ex 2011 Blue Jimny SZ4
Northumberland Jimny Blog

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16 Feb 2024 14:19 #254378 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
I'll have a look at the battery tommorow. The thing is, the previous owner tried to wire up a dual battery setup but couldn't get an isolator set up. So i believe he ended up just wiring both up in parallel so it's not really a dual battery setup. There's no accesories connected to the car so there shouldn't be any drain on it. I'm confused as to which code to focus on now, but if there's any suggestions I'd be happy to accept.
Thanks

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17 Feb 2024 08:03 #254392 by KimiKeemstar
Replied by KimiKeemstar on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
Hey guys,

Just had a look at the batteries, since they’re in parallel, both are at 12.44v. While I was under there, I also tried to test the MAF/IAT for any issues, by I only managed to get to step 7 of the attached flow chart since I don’t have multimeter leads long enough to complete step 8. But it seemed to be pretty good up to that point.

Another thing I was looking at was the timing advance in relation to the RPM at idle when up to temp. I’ve attached the figures below, but the timing advance does seem to fluctuate a bit at idle, is that normal?

I also looked at the MAF and MAP sensor readings at idle. The MAF seems to be within spec, but the MAP looks to be reading quite high. At the same time, the engine load was reading at 34.51%, at idle, which is weird because air con and accessories were off. Does having two batteries to charge put a higher load on the alternator?

I thought it was also worth having a look at the coil packs, the rubber ends seem to be wearing away as one of them was able to have the end removed completely. Reckon they’re worth replacing?

 Anyways, gonna keep looking tomorrow, probably at the cam angle sensor and see if there’s anything up.

Thanks 

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17 Feb 2024 08:52 #254393 by DrRobin
Replied by DrRobin on topic ‘08 Jimny Rough Idle
Having two batteries does put increased load on the alternator if they are both flat. If they are in parallel you can get one battery discharging in to the other.

The reading of 12.44v I assume is without the engine running? If it without the engine on then that’s ok, perhaps a little low, but ok, it depends on the temperature.

Just out of interest what are you using to get the graphs? I use Torque Pro, but some of the values are derived rather than been measured, I think engine load is one of them.

I wasn’t sure that the Jimny has a MAP sensor, it has a MAF sensor, but I could be wrong.

Robin

2020 blue SZ5 (one of the last to be registered in the UK)
Ex 2011 Blue Jimny SZ4
Northumberland Jimny Blog

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