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Anti ageing compounds

  • Lambert
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17 May 2018 15:08 #192771 by Lambert
Hi all. Ok so after the last winter being as rough as it was it's time to refresh the under armour of Ermintrude. When she was new the first thing to happen was a liberal coating of waxoyl. This has been topped up yearly for the last 7 years. The only reason for this product was that buzzweld didn't exist at the time. My plan is over the summer to use my evil jetwash to really clean the old stuff off as much as it will without separating the body and then to rectify any issues before another heavy coating. But and this is the question, what's the best stuff to reapply? I'm not going to have the time to get it clean enough to buzzweld so it'll be a waxy coating whatever I use but which are worthwhile and which aren't?

Thanks in advance.

It's not a Jimny. It's my Jimny

Mooo said Ermintrude (black)
Boing said Zebedee (blue)

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17 May 2018 15:33 #192772 by GRAYWOLF
Replied by GRAYWOLF on topic Anti ageing compounds
I would be inclined to reapply waxoyl again, if you havent got the time for buzzweld, i am at present in process of buzzweld my axles and diff cases etc; as i had them dropped while i was fitting new suspension..
Worth the effort.!!

Ignis Sport Recaros fitted.
14in.Light Bar..
2 inch black raptor lift..
30mm Spacers.
215.70 x15 geolandars.
Decked and 2 seatered.!
Snorkel..and lots of other shit.!!
Driver.. Navigator.
Me and ma Dawg..

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17 May 2018 16:33 #192773 by Daniel30
Replied by Daniel30 on topic Anti ageing compounds
Well if the stuff you have been applying for the last 7 years has worked better the devil you know.

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17 May 2018 17:55 #192775 by helijohn
Replied by helijohn on topic Anti ageing compounds

Lambert wrote: But and this is the question, what's the best stuff to reapply?

For me it is a no brainer. Waxoyl all the time.;)

Do it right - use Hammerite
When the blue light is flashing I am kidding.

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17 May 2018 18:12 #192777 by gilburton
Replied by gilburton on topic Anti ageing compounds
Does the stuff my wife has for her face count??

I started off high and worked my way down ever since :-)

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17 May 2018 18:34 #192778 by facade
Replied by facade on topic Anti ageing compounds
Dinitrol gets better reviews than waxoyl. I dinitroled the Jimny and it doen't seem much better than waxoyl tbh, but apparently you need to reapply every 2 years whatever you use. (Naturally I haven't)

It always worried me that the bottom of the waxoyl tins used to rust through so quickly in the garage too- considering how much waxoyl runs down the outside of the tin you'd expect the bottom of the can to be well protected :whistle:

If it suddenly breaks, go back to the last thing that you did before it broke and start looking there :)

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  • Lambert
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18 May 2018 04:54 #192784 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Anti ageing compounds
Thank you all. I have heard of dinitrol but never used it. If you have to still reapply it just as regular as waxoyl then it seems an expensive option. Jetwash, tar paint on the bad bits and waxoyl it is. Thanks again.

It's not a Jimny. It's my Jimny

Mooo said Ermintrude (black)
Boing said Zebedee (blue)

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20 May 2018 13:11 - 20 May 2018 13:12 #192823 by furo
Replied by furo on topic Anti ageing compounds
I had mine professionally dinitrol'd and was very impressed with the service but it's impossible to tell how effective it has been, as it's only been 18months and I don't have another Jimny to compare it with! They recommend re-applying it yearly unless it was in bad shape initially, in which case it should be re-applied more frequently. Although obviously they make more money if they re-apply it more often.

I'm hoping to get one of the new generation Jimnys and I'm not sure what the best approach to rust-proofing is. I have heard a lot of people mention buzzweld but I can't find a lot of information on it. I really like the idea of not having to re-apply it, as that will get very expensive over the lifetime of a vehicle. I think I'll probably still use the dinitrol cavity wax as well.

2004 Jimny Mode; General Grabber AT3s (215/75/R15); Trailmaster 2" Lift; Jimnybits Snorkel; Jimnybits Front and Rear Recovery Points; Osram Nightbreakers; Suntop Roof Rack; AVM Manual Hubs; ORA Radius Arm Guards; Stainless Steel Exhaust System.
Last edit: 20 May 2018 13:12 by furo.

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22 May 2018 06:08 #192858 by yakuza
Replied by yakuza on topic Anti ageing compounds
Seen many rusty SJ's undersides with two coting of the hard stuff and lots of rust underneath. I think it's better to use something thin at least at first that penetrate the old and probably hard and stiff undercoating. After that then something more tough that withstand wear and tear. I have no idea what brands where used underneath the cars in Norway in the late eighties but it got hard, cracked, and rust had its way underneath.

As for my own experience i used thick oil inside my sills on one SJ and is very sad i did not apply it to the inside of the cross bar with the body mounts as well as the car had rust free sills when it was recycled and "made into nails" due to the rust in the body mounts.

2005 Jimny M16A VVT, 235 BFG MT, 2" Trailmaster, 17%/87% high/low gears.

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24 May 2018 09:07 #192900 by Bosanek
Replied by Bosanek on topic Anti ageing compounds
I've extensively researched into this topic recently as I first planned to clean and rust proof my old Jimny, but now I have a new one which has just begun to rust and need attention before the next winter.

In general, the best results by far can be achieved if the vehicle is first dismantled (body separated from frame). However, that is a major undertaking by itself and can be quite unpredictable process with older vehicles (many stuck bolts which break off, some flaky brake lines which crack during removal, some stuck bolts in the bushings will require replacing the bushings, etc.).

If the body is separated from the frame (and the transmission and the suspension, which remain on the frame), than the underside of the body can be thoroughly cleaned and protected, as well as the top of the frame/chassis.

However, the dismantling can be taken further to the "complete" level by also dismantling all the transmission and suspension elements from the chassis.
Then the bare chassis can be dipped into a hot zinc bath ("hot zinc plating" process) and this is the only method which cleans and protects the inside of the chassis tubes and rails. There is no other solution for the complete chassis protection. Cold zinc plating (also galled zinc galvanization) is thinner and can be applied only to the exterior surfaces of the chassis, not to the interiors.
Note that the process of both hod and cold zinc plating usually implies prior dipping of the material to be treated into a pool of special acid, which kills of any remaining rust, dirt, greases and bad spirits. This is usually included in the price of zinc plating.

Of course, each dismantled suspension and transmission piece can also be taken for zinc plating or some other coating (but the bushes have to be removed first in some cases).

After a vehicle component iz zinc plated, it can then be treated with a "final" coating. There are several materials which can be used - automotive wax, bitumen-alike coating, plastic-alike coating (not recommended outdoor applications), or hard bed-liner coating.
Whichever final coating is applied, the application should be done in at least two passes (2 layers).

Opinions on which final coating material is the best vary as much as do opinions on an only proper world religion.

(Allegedly poorer) alternatives to hot or cold zinc plating are to paint the bare metal with a good quality primer paint (preferably 2-component one) and then apply one of the mentioned final coatings.

However, the most important part of this process is the prior removal of the existing rust. Rust is like cancer. If even a tiny untreated bit remains, it will spread again all around in due time.
A standard method of rust removal is by using manual or powered wire brushes (attached to drills, grinders, etc.).
However a much more thorough rust removal can be accomplished only with sand blasting.

Sand blasting is of course done much easier and with far better reach is the body is dismantled from the chassis.

Whichever rust removal procedure is performed, (if the surface will not be dipped into a zinc bath), the treated surfaces should then be "painted" over or sprayed over with some rust treatment (elimination) chemical. Its job is to kill the last tiny thin remains of rust which might have stayed in some pores or scratches after the mechanical removal has been performed.
The best chemicals for this job are the ones which chemically alter (transform) the rust into another non-ferrous material (making it impotent). These chemicals are much more expensive than ordinary "rust melting / elimination" chemicals. Prices are usually about 20-40 EUR per liter, but they are well worth it. An example manufacturer of these chemicals is Wurth from Germany.

A rust treatment chemical usually needs about 12-24 hours to do its job. Some of these chemicals require grinding them off after they harden off, while others allow further coating applications like it's a bare metal.

Note that timing and weather protection is important during the entire process.

For example, if you sand blast the chassis, and then load it onto a trailer to be taken somewhere else for the next phase, if it's a cloudy day with high humidity (let alone rainy day!), the metal will quickly develop rust flecks on the way to the next station. Or if you wait too long after the application of the rust treatment chemical, the chemical will "evaporate" and the rust will return from the air moisture again ....

Without vehicle dismantling:

If you do not go on the path of dismantling the body from the chassis (you most likely won't do that), then it is highly recommended to at least remove the fuel tank and possibly the transfer case as well before the rust proofing. Removing these two should not be difficult. It is just a bit fiddly to properly connect the fuel lines when returning the fuel tank back into position.

Removal of these two will enable much, much better access to the underside of the body below the rear seats and below the boot. These are the areas which usually suffer the most from rust on Jimnys, and these areas can be properly cleaned and protected only if the fuel tank (and preferably the transfer case too) are removed.

If the body is not dismantled from the chassis, then both of the zinc platings are not an option. Everything else what was mentioned above is still valid and possible (rust grinding, sand blasting, rust chemical application, primer paints, final coatings, etc.). It will just be harder (more effort) to properly treat all the surfaces and hidden "bays". Also be careful not to damage the brake lines and hoses, the vacuum hoses and various wires while doing th jobs ...

Note: Pressurized zinc spray cans are (allegedly) much inferior solution to proper zinc plating and they should (allegedly) not be used. Better to use a proper primer paint on bare metal.

Note: Most primer paints are porous, meaning that moisture passes through them. This means that you need to apply final coating(s) of your choice (which need to be airtight) as soon as the primer paint dries off. A lot of people leave the project for a while (maybe to take a rest) after the application of a primer paint, thinking that they have covered the bare metal and how the main "rust shield" is on, but it isn't! Primer paints provide no protection against moisture, they are just a "stop-gap" layer so that the final airtight coating can adhere properly!

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