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Re:Suspension Lift and Ground Clearance?

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16 May 2020 16:38 #222337 by wjamieson
Looking for some help. When reading about body lift and suspension lifts quite a lot of the info states benefit of suspension lift is that it improves ground clearance. But how accurate is this? My understanding is you cannot improve ground clearance without fitting bigger wheels/Tyres to lift the Differential and axles.

So when fitting a 2" suspension lift where do you get the improved ground clearance?



Am I correct in thinking when looking at the pic above all elements identified would be increased by 2" except the low point of the radius arm guards. They might increase a bit as the angle will change but certainly not 2". I have measured various parts ground clearance, see info below. Am I correct in that the parts marked with an * would be lifted but the rest would not?

Ground Clearance mm

Front Radius Arm Low Point 205
Front Differential 215
*Cross Member 245
*Front Radius Arm (Where you would fit the guard) 210
*Transfer Guard 245
Rear Radius Arm Low point 235
*Rear Radius Arm (Where you would fit the guard) 230
Rear Differential 205
*Rear Tie Down Point 245

I have also attached some more pics that show the various measurements. Tape measure was 85 mm in size.

Thanks in advance.
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16 May 2020 16:56 #222338 by mlines
A lift does not improve ground clearance.

Larger tyres improve ground clearance

Every inch increase in tyres diameter gives half an inch of increased clearance.

A lift let's you fit the larger tyres.

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
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16 May 2020 17:18 #222339 by Roger Fairclough
Sorry to contradict but a suspension lift does increase ground clearance under the chassis and body but not under the axles ie diffs, axle tubes and hubs. Bigger diameter tyres will increase clearance under everything as was mentioned. A true 50mm lift will raise the chassis and therefore the body by that amount. Certain fittings ie leading and trailing arms will see no lift at the hubs but the full lift at the chassis joint.

Roger
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16 May 2020 17:55 #222341 by 300bhpton
Of course a suspension lift improves ground clearance. Anyone saying otherwise simply isn’t thinking it through.

For more proof just look at variable ride height vehicles like any air sprung Range Rover. Raising the vehicle with the suspension, ie a suspension lift. Will improve approach, departure and break over angles. All things that are often super important when off road.

The trick however is, on how much to lift a vehicle by. How it is done and what impact and/or improvements can be made to the suspension flex and therefore, the stability of the vehicle off road.

JB74W SZ5
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16 May 2020 17:57 - 16 May 2020 17:58 #222342 by mlines
But a range rover does not have an axle and we are Jimnys here.


A suspension lift only lifts everything above the axle.

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
Last edit: 16 May 2020 17:58 by mlines.
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16 May 2020 17:59 #222343 by 300bhpton
Btw clearance under the diffs often matters less. Except for when running in deep ruts/tramlines made by other vehicles with taller tyres.

For off roaring over obstacles, it is amazing how infrequent the diffs will come into contact with the ground.

For example my standard gen4 Jimny will happily impact the front bumper, front recovery point, transfer box and chassis end radius arm brackets (specifically the rear axle ones) with the ground off road. But I’m yet to notice a single mark or scrape on the diffs.

A suspension lift would most certainly increase the ground clearance on all of these vital areas that currently hit the ground.

JB74W SZ5
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16 May 2020 18:14 #222346 by mlines
5ft clearance or 1ft clearance ;)

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Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
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16 May 2020 18:51 - 16 May 2020 18:53 #222347 by Scimike
Thinking it through a suspension lift increases the distance between the axle and the chassis spring mount. In order to accommodate this the radius arm pivots at the radius arm chassis mount, and in doing so lifts the chassis slightly at this point. It also reduces the distance between the axle centres slightly and the way the axle sits in the radius arms, hence why correction bushes are required if you lift high enough.
So yes it does lift the chassis by a small amount, but your axles are no higher unless you fit bigger tyres.
That's how I see it.
Mike
Last edit: 16 May 2020 18:53 by Scimike.
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16 May 2020 19:01 #222348 by 300bhpton

mlines wrote: 5ft clearance or 1ft clearance ;)



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I reckon it would let you wade in 5 foot deep water. So IMO it has load of clearance ;)

Another aspect to consider is. As the diff is essentially locked to the wheel. Your clearance increases when a wheel is raised over an object, eg

The diff is further from the ground here than with the vehicle sitting level. But it is still the suspension that would determine how close the bodywork would get to the boulder.


JB74W SZ5
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16 May 2020 19:08 #222349 by mlines
The thing is, that is driving position (positioning the wheel on a bank/trailer etc.). That is not clearance due to suspension lift.

Yes, it changes the ramp over angle, approach angle and departure angle as well as wading depth, but any measurement has to have a reference otherwise they have no meaning. The reference for clearance is flat ground.

Martin

2003 M13 early KAP build.
3" Trailmaster lift with 1.5 Spacers on front
Customised winch bumper and roll cage
235/85R16 Maxxis Bighorns on 16" Rims, 4:1 Rocklobster, Rear ARB locker and on-board air
Corrected arms all-round, rear disks, Recaro seats and harnesses
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16 May 2020 20:15 #222351 by Lambert
You are right. No amount of suspension or body lift is going to have any effect on the available ground clearance of a live axle vehicle for the simple fact that you are not raising the lowest point of the vehicle. The only way to do that is by fitting bigger tyres. Which is what the lift allows you space to do.

Dreadnaught (black 2011)
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16 May 2020 20:52 #222355 by furo
In my personal experience the clearance under the diffs (ie the clearance provided by bigger tyres) is much more important that the clearance under the body. Where I go off-road the biggest weakness of the Jimny is hanging up the diffs in deep Land Rover ruts, while the stock body clearance/rampover is pretty good.

I think that the biggest advantage of improved body clearance isn't that I get stuck less, it's that I get less stuck (if that makes any sense). I still get hung up on my diffs, but it's now much more difficult to get bogged right up to the chassis rails, which means that recovery is always much simpler, and often possible without another vehicle.

2004 Jimny Mode: General Grabber AT3s (215/75/R15); Trailmaster 2" Lift; Jimnybits Snorkel; Jimnybits Front and Rear Recovery Points; Suntop Roof Rack; AVM Manual Hubs; Albrecht CB; Stainless Steel Exhaust System.
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