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Jimny and the cheap stuff..

  • TomDK
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16 Jan 2018 15:42 - 16 Jan 2018 16:14 #188443 by TomDK
Jimny and the cheap stuff.. was created by TomDK
Read the debate on the drop links thread and thought I'd continue on my own here :)

Not sure how to begin with this.. But here goes.

When I started using this forum we had Bigjimny, Jimnybits and Bits4Vits to go to for Parts for the Jimny. Reasonable quality at reasonable prices. Now we have vitmods, black raptor, 4x4 art, plus a lot of private sellers of more or less shady lift kits and what not.

And the generel rule seems to go in one direction. As tall as possible as cheap as possible. So many owners are using all sort of lift blocks, either for springs and shocks or just as a body lift. None of it with a lot of thought put to it.

I understand we all are different, with different budgets, different use of Jimnys and what not. But what I'll never understand is why cheap is the most used word when Jimny upgrades are mentioned. Without any thought to how it behaves, road safety and such.

Some kits are now tried and tested over years, like the Rough Country and Pro Comp shocks along with springs of unknown origin. But it seems to work ok.
But not a single person seems to be interested in knowing what this Black Raptor stuff is all about? And what about the 4x4 Art stuff? To me it's just cheap shitty things with shiny colors. Sorry.. but can anyone for sure know if it's any different? And the same goes for many other suspension kits sold for the Jimny.

All this has made me thing why no one would be interested in trying the opposite. Offer good quality suspension kits tailored to each specific vehicle. Like Fox, Bilstein or King shocks. Not necessarily a lot more money than Trail Master or OME shocks, but something very different. And very easy to rebuilt and gets parts for.

Hope this is not too provocative as this is not the main intent. Just trying to get my head around some of the things discussed here...

Your thoughts?

Tom
Last edit: 16 Jan 2018 16:14 by mlines. Reason: Edited to add in the favourite source of Jimny parts :)

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  • 1066Boy
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16 Jan 2018 16:49 #188444 by 1066Boy
Replied by 1066Boy on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
I agree with a lot of your points Tom. On a lot of the Facebook groups all people seam to ask is how high can I go, how big can the tires be and how cheap without a thought of how this is going to affect the performance/handling of the vehicle. :(

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16 Jan 2018 17:02 #188445 by Caelite
Replied by Caelite on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
This will likely be an unpopular opinion on here but: I think the issue is the Suzuki Jimny is seldom the owners 'dream car'. People dream of a modified Defender, G wagons, Wranglers or Land Cruisers, These types of vehicle suited for overland travel, where people historically spend mega bucks.

The Jimny is, again in my opinion, more likely to be purchased as a pay&play toy (a tasks it performs very well) or as a stop gap until they get their dream. These types of ownership ethos do not lend themselves to big spending.

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16 Jan 2018 17:53 #188446 by Busta
Replied by Busta on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
Tom, I think your comments are more reflective of the attitudes on the facebook groups than this forum. I get the feeling most members here are perhaps a little more grown up and are enthusiasts rather than people looking for a cheap off-road toy.

That said, I can completely relate to what you are saying. It seems very few people have any idea about vehicle dynamics and what makes a good off-road vehicle. Recent discussions about shock relocators have highlighted that. It's all driven by achieving a certain look as cheaply as possible rather than thinking about what actually works best. Nobody even considers buying a locker or lobster box until they have 5 inches of lift, 31s, a 69 inch light bar and a snorkel. I also see lots of lifted Jimnys with less articulation than standard.

If I had the money I'd like to do some comparisons of different setups, starting with tests of the different lift kits available then looking at tyre sizes and types. With no reference data for how different setups perform, people rely on their peers and, on facebook at least, people's opinions are usually worth what you pay for them.

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16 Jan 2018 18:35 #188448 by jackonlyjack
Busta your comments made me giggle :laugh:
and Tom you have some valid points ;)

Jack

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  • Lambert
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16 Jan 2018 18:55 #188451 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
I guess that so long as what is done by means of modifications is not actively dangerous then each to their own. I wouldn't want anything on my car that wasn't specifically designed for it or that didn't afforded a dynamic improvement even if only minor.

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16 Jan 2018 20:01 #188455 by Riccy
Replied by Riccy on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
Hmm, Ive posted my rant in the drop links thread before i had seen this one!

Totally agree about quality rather than quantity being the best way ;-)

J999 MNY, ULYSSES M18 VVT with ITB's Dyno tested at 130hp

Pickup/tipper, R7me gearbox & 6.4 Rocklobster, 31" Toyo MT, 2x ARB air locker 3.9 diffs in braced axles, 6" total lift, Floating rear conversion, Raptor painted, CB, Recaro's, Caged, etc, etc...

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16 Jan 2018 21:39 #188457 by Mraz
Replied by Mraz on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
Well... I have TrailMaster lift, AVM reinforced hubs, and few other "expensive" bits (and a winch coming my way) but I also have DIY parts for three reasons:

1. I have the "know how" and equipmemt
2. I enjoy fabricating stuff
3. I truly believe that when it comes to my car and my safety no one will put as much effort into making something (or just general service) than I will. And so I do it and it's CHEAP and I love it.

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17 Jan 2018 05:18 #188466 by Lambert
Replied by Lambert on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
My rear plywood deck is diy and as cheap and nasty as possible because of the abuse it gets as is my stereo install, however neither are a safety critical system nor do they affect the dynamics of the car. (Well the stereo might if it's playing something loud and aggressive )

But I stand by my original post, that for a retailer to only offer high end products in a budget conscious market sector is not an easy way to make money.

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17 Jan 2018 08:09 #188468 by zukebob
Replied by zukebob on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
You were trying not to provoke anyone with your post Tom and I will try not to offend anyone with my response.

I think you actually somewhat touch on the reason for people focusing on price when they modify their Jimny. When you don’t really know what you want to accomplish (aside from lift), people generally will focus on price. I think that it may simply be a part of a learning curve. As an example, I have seen many here in the Philippines put really cheap Chinese suspension components on their Jimny. Most here don’t have a lot of money to spend and they often think first of cost. However, it also doesn’t take them long to switch over to one of the brands you mention. The best anyone on this forum can do is keep giving experienced advise.

As far as the retailer perspective, I agree completely with 11/60. Retailers are always going to push volume and see the Jimny as an economy 4X4. It is much easier to find high-end accessories for things like Toyota, Jeep and Land Rover but even with that, retailers will still promote price points.

Like most on this forum, I don’t want to speak badly about the modifications a person wants to do to their vehicle. It’s up to them. The last thing I hope to see is people posting what they want to do their Jimny and taking a beating for it. I’ve see that on too many forums. I just also hope that people do enough evaluation of their mods so that they don’t end up severely regretting what they have done.

I started out with nothing & still have most of it left
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  • TomDK
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17 Jan 2018 21:09 #188502 by TomDK
Replied by TomDK on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
Thank you for your comments guys. Great to see I'm not alone on this :)

I can see the point with this whole budget thing regarding the Jimny.
The UK is probably the only country to my knowledge where the Jimny is considered a budget vehicle. In Denmark, Germany and other parts of europe It's much more expensive. Especially here in DK it's priced about the same as a nissan Patrol, if not even a bit more expensive. Sounds a bit stupid really, but that's how it is, though helped a bit with danish taxation laws.

A first I also just wanted a cheap Jimny built for offroading. But the more I experience I got, the more I found out that this is actually a very capable offroad vehicle. So they way I see it, it's just another way of doing it, compared to a Cruiser or Patrol running 37-40" tyres.
So Busta has a point. If you want a proper offroading Jimny, spend the money on decent tyres, a locker and rocklobster box instead of some massive lift.

I guess it all comes down to what you want with you Jimny. But since driving is what it's meant for I generally want it to drive as good as possible, for my intended purpose. No matter how it looks. Up until recently I've always felt that anything bigger than 31" tyres were just excessive weight. I still do on most occasions. But learned a bit from a trip to rocky Croatia :)

Just aiming for massive tyres and as tall as possible on lowest possible budget is just silly if you ask me. And may even add to make the Jimny unsafe on the road.

On the retailer perspective. Makes good sense. Even if some retailer has a batch of, let's say Fox shocks tailormade to Jimny spec, it'd still take a long time to sell them I guess. Making them very expensive.

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18 Jan 2018 15:55 #188524 by furo
Replied by furo on topic Jimny and the cheap stuff..
I really struggled with justifying big expenditures on my Jimny initially, because they were so expensive compared to the price of the truck itself. But I'm so glad that I decided to get higher quality parts in the end, mostly for the peace of mind and also because I think it would feel wrong to do otherwise to my pride and joy. I'm definitely one of the people mentioned above, who bought a Jimny because they couldn't afford a Defender, but I'm so glad I did. Honestly if I won the lottery now I'm certain I'd just buy a newer Jimny!

2004 Jimny Mode: General Grabber AT3s (215/75/R15); Trailmaster 2" Lift; Jimnybits Snorkel; Jimnybits Front and Rear Recovery Points; Suntop Roof Rack; AVM Manual Hubs; Stainless Steel Exhaust System (SOLD)

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