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Vehicles (17 Jan 2019)

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Kaiser lockers? Anybody heard of them before?

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16 Mar 2017 19:00 #179296 by Riccy
Hi all,

Ive seen Jimnybits have added kaiser lockers, which sound like a sweet (but double the £) alternative to a Lockright, and better value than an ARB. Ive had a bit of a search and cant find anything much about them apart from praise.

www.jimnybits.com/jimny/drivetrain/jimny...ocker-by-kaiser.html


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16 Mar 2017 19:33 #179297 by Keithy

Riccy wrote: Hi all,

Ive seen Jimnybits have added kaiser lockers, which sound like a sweet (but double the £) alternative to a Lockright, and better value than an ARB. Ive had a bit of a search and cant find anything much about them apart from praise.

www.jimnybits.com/jimny/drivetrain/jimny...ocker-by-kaiser.html


Riccy

Cheaper by £56 and you need no compressor or wiring etc....It's like a slightly better lock-right...but you can't blow your tyres up without a compressor..

Could be fun having one in the front of a Jimny! :D

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16 Mar 2017 20:49 #179303 by TomDK
Arb airlockers are still cheaper in continental Europe. So why bother.

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16 Mar 2017 20:53 #179304 by Busta
Sounds promising but the description of how it works doesn't make sense. They say it doesn't lock when cornering, but does lock if one driveshaft is spinning faster than the ring gear, which happens every time you go around a corner. That is the main issue with a lockright. If need to see a picture of the inner workings before throwing that much money at it. But not needing to pump air at 100psi into the diff is a big bonus!

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16 Mar 2017 21:05 #179306 by TomDK
Not that air into diff thing again. The axles are vented. So why even consider this a problem?

Also. ARB lockers are used world wide in all sorts of vehicles. From overlanding and greenlaning to rockcrawling and desertracing. And yes, anything can be broken. But ARB's are often stronger built than standard diffs. Just look at the Jimny front diff compared to an ARB locker.

One more thing. That price.. Makes it even less attractive.


+3" Trail Master. Fox 8.0" R/R shocks. ORA HD winchbumper. Warn M8274 Ox-motor + Hellfire gears, Delta-Tek mainshaft and freespool, overvolted. 33/9.5 R16 Silverstone Extreme. 5.14:1 ratio SJ transferbox in RW cradle. OMP rollcage.

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16 Mar 2017 21:34 #179309 by Busta
My issue isn't so much with the air being in the diff, but with having to buy and fit a compressor to generate the compressed air in the first place.

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16 Mar 2017 22:21 #179310 by Busta
So from the video that TomDK shared it's clear the principle of operation is essentially the same as a lockright, albeit executed slightly differently. Great for off-roaders but personally I'd avoid it for any sort of day-to-day road use for the simple reason that it will significantly alter the dynamics of the car. I shall endeavour to explain:

An open diff always splits the torque equally between the wheels whilst allowing them to travel at different speeds. When cornering on the road both wheels are pushing the car with the same force, and no wheel can ever receive more than 50% of the maximum torque from the engine. This is predictable, efficient and put's very little stress on things. It is unlikely that you will exceed the available traction on a dry road, and if you do it will spin up the inside wheel and the car will slow but essentially remain on a steady course around the corner. The downside of this arrangement is that it can only deliver as much torque as the tyre with least grip can handle. If one wheel is in the air, then there is no torque to distribute between the wheels and you go nowhere. So good for road, not so good for off-road.

With a Kaiser or Lockright diff (we should probably call them 'over-run' diffs) they send all the torque to the slowest moving wheel, and lock when the speed of both wheels is equal. The faster moving wheel is allowed to freewheel, or over-run. This means that when cornering they send 100% of the torque to the inside wheel- the wheel with least traction. That is double the maximum load you can deliver with an open diff, and therefore doubles the likelihood of the inside tyre losing traction. IF the inside wheel loses traction and starts to spin it will match the speed of the outside wheel, at which point the diff will be 'locked'. Then you are cornering with a locked diff, scrubbing at least one of the tyres and your predictable handling has turned into sudden oversteer. The diff will 'unlock' when the grip at the slowest moving wheel exceeds the amount of torque the engine is delivering. This is not the behaviour you want in a normal road car! Great for going sideways, but so is welding the diff and that costs pennies.

An ARB style selectable locking diff has the benefits of being normal open diff when you don't need extra traction, and a fully locked diff when you want it to be. So it remains the best of both worlds.

Keithy, I like the idea of a front locker but I suspect the extra torque would soon take it's toll on the CVs.

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17 Mar 2017 07:17 #179313 by Riccy

TomDK wrote: Arb airlockers are still cheaper in continental Europe. So why bother.


Where are they cheaper please? i cant find a retailer in europe thats much different to jimnybits pricing on ARB gear, unless i look at the chinese copy stuff, which isnt an option.

The kaiser was simply an observation, Im not that keen on the way the lockrite works, was wondering if this made any sense to anyone who knows about insides of a dfflock. The ARB is univerally agreed to be the daddy, but does mean a compressor is also needed (agreed, a useful piece of kit). The kaiser looks a simple thing to fit compared to the ARB, but im still struggling to find out if anyone has actually used one anywhere.

With the rear lockers - does everyone just run the standard half shafts or swap to something stronger? i presume its more or less essential to improve the front factory shafts/CVs if going for lockers?

Thanks all
Riccy

J999 MNY, M16 VVT
R7me gbox & Rocklobster, 285 75 r16 Toyo MT, 2x ARB Lockd' diffs, 7" (total) lift, Recaro's, Custom bar, arches & guards, Snorkel, K&N, Winch, CB, etc, etc

SL06 ULS ULYSSES
06' pickup tipper project

greenlaning.blog/
www.youtube.com/user/riclemus

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17 Mar 2017 10:55 #179320 by Keithy
When you posted about these I looked at the users who have them fitted....One user reported a lot of broken cv joints on the front.

Of all the users there were no complaints from having one fitted in the rear.

I actually like the design and can actually see some merit for fitment into the rear of mine.....it would free up an ARB for fitment into my T box for full time 4wd....although I may just make a manual one for that.

I have ARB front and rear.....they've been used on some pretty gnarly stuff.....all on standard cv/shafts.......I can see how people can/could break these components.....but for my present use I doubt I'll break anything :D

Why not try an ARB clone from China via Alibaba?

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17 Mar 2017 23:03 #179335 by TomDK

Riccy wrote:

TomDK wrote: Arb airlockers are still cheaper in continental Europe. So why bother.


Where are they cheaper please? i cant find a retailer in europe thats much different to jimnybits pricing on ARB gear, unless i look at the chinese copy stuff, which isnt an option.

The kaiser was simply an observation, Im not that keen on the way the lockrite works, was wondering if this made any sense to anyone who knows about insides of a dfflock. The ARB is univerally agreed to be the daddy, but does mean a compressor is also needed (agreed, a useful piece of kit). The kaiser looks a simple thing to fit compared to the ARB, but im still struggling to find out if anyone has actually used one anywhere.

With the rear lockers - does everyone just run the standard half shafts or swap to something stronger? i presume its more or less essential to improve the front factory shafts/CVs if going for lockers?

Thanks all
Riccy


Lots of places, just google the correct ARB number :) But here's one www.hm4x4.com/HM4X4Shop/index.php?cPath=179_182_203

+3" Trail Master. Fox 8.0" R/R shocks. ORA HD winchbumper. Warn M8274 Ox-motor + Hellfire gears, Delta-Tek mainshaft and freespool, overvolted. 33/9.5 R16 Silverstone Extreme. 5.14:1 ratio SJ transferbox in RW cradle. OMP rollcage.

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17 Mar 2017 23:05 #179336 by TomDK

Keithy wrote: When you posted about these I looked at the users who have them fitted....One user reported a lot of broken cv joints on the front.

Of all the users there were no complaints from having one fitted in the rear.

I actually like the design and can actually see some merit for fitment into the rear of mine.....it would free up an ARB for fitment into my T box for full time 4wd....although I may just make a manual one for that.

I have ARB front and rear.....they've been used on some pretty gnarly stuff.....all on standard cv/shafts.......I can see how people can/could break these components.....but for my present use I doubt I'll break anything :D

Why not try an ARB clone from China via Alibaba?


So you wanna but an ARB into the Jimny/samurai Transferbox? Hope this is meant as a joke :dry: ;)

+3" Trail Master. Fox 8.0" R/R shocks. ORA HD winchbumper. Warn M8274 Ox-motor + Hellfire gears, Delta-Tek mainshaft and freespool, overvolted. 33/9.5 R16 Silverstone Extreme. 5.14:1 ratio SJ transferbox in RW cradle. OMP rollcage.

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18 Mar 2017 08:23 #179339 by Keithy
[quote="TomDK" post=179336

So you wanna but an ARB into the Jimny/samurai Transferbox? Hope this is meant as a joke :dry: ;)[/quote] Sadly I'm serious! :D

I need full time 4wd especially if the road is wet.....I live in the UK and it's wet quite a bit.

The ARB takes up less space than the sliding collar type I'd make although the extra 3" it'd take up can be offset against the 3" axle reposition....we'll see.

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